the rachel maddow show, transcript 03/24/11 - oil spill pads
Host: Good evening, Lawrence. Thank you.
Thank you for staying with us for an hour at home.
There are many things happening in the world and today's news.
There is still a lot to be done by this time, including the announcement that the Obama administration has promised the Libyan war from the very beginning, but many doubt that we will hear it.
We heard it tonight.
NATO says they will take over.
United States command and control zone duties in LibyaS. military.
Hillary Clinton, US Secretary of State, confirmed the statement in Washington tonight.
We will go through this in detail on tonight's show, including this pair of fast-heating-
American politics about the war.
It's all here.
But let's start with an exclusive report tonight.
This is something we have been working on for a while.
You can't see this anywhere else. All right.
Do you have air bags in your car?
Depending on the age of your car, you may do so.
There may be many airbags in your car.
You may have one built into your steering wheel, dashboard and passenger side.
If you pop up, you may have airbags with side effects.
If you drive every day, you may not be thinking about the airbag in your car every day.
But the general concept about them is that the airbag was not in the first place to prevent accidents, but if the accident did happen, the airbag was basically there to limit damage.
This is your last line of defense against disaster.
For example, if you hit something on your head, the airbag on the steering wheel prevents your body from hitting everything in front of you while driving.
Similarly, the airbag is not there to prevent accidents.
This is to prevent accidents from becoming tragedies.
The reason you might have airbags in your car is because the federal government asked the automakers to put them there.
The government will not let a car company sell you a car made after 1998 unless it has air bags. Unless it has such a device, the device is proven to reduce the chance of serious damage if a disaster occurs.
The auto industry is not excited about the rule, but that's why they are bound by the regulations.
This is one of the things the federal government does.
It requires the industry to produce their products as safely as possible, which is in the interest of all of us.
That's why you can't buy lawn darts anymore. Fun.
Of course, my design is also perfect to pierce your skull.
That's why you shouldn't buy toys made of lead or toys coded with lead paint.
These are cool for kids, but also perfect clues
For the aviation industry, there are a lot of things, including beautiful oxygen masks that fall off the top of their seats.
Again, it's like an airbag for the automotive industry.
For the oil and gas drilling industry, this is what is called a blowout preventer.
If it sounds familiar to you, it's probably because you remember the picture.
This picture is played on TV screens across the country, like a horror movie ad, night after night, week after week, all year last year --
The flow of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico continues unabated, causing the worst oil spill in the United States. S. history.
We have now learned that this image is the result of the well-known airbag not working.
This is the result of the well blowout preventer not doing a good job.
The only thing we can report tonight is that this is not only an explanation for the BP oil spill.
It's not just the BP oil spill or the oil industry scandal.
This is a basic, baseline screw.
In an industry that still puts the country at risk.
The government knows about it.
The government may stop it.
They seem to try to let it slip without explanation. Let me explain.
This is what we found.
Of course, the process of oil exploration is a dangerous process.
An accident happened.
When you drill into the Earth's crust, there will be various pressures below the surface of the Earth.
Oil drilling is essentially controlling pressure while mining your oil there, right?
But sometimes accidents happen.
Sometimes the pressure builds up and goes up essentially through the drill pipe --
This is a blowout.
The blowout preventer should have come in there, right?
You had a serious failure during the drilling.
Now, it's about controlling damage.
The car accident has already happened.
The airbag was deployed.
The blowout preventer is basically a device connected to the top of the well, right?
When the drilling pressure rises-
The drill pipe should be activated by the blowout preventer.
It basically seals the well and presses all the pressure in.
You get this if the blowout preventer is not working.
You will have a disaster.
Disasters are not just for the environment, but also for the crew stationed on the faulty oil rig.
On last April, the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded in the Gulf of Mexico, killing 11 crew members.
Shortly after that explosion and the subsequent historic oil spill, it was clear that the blowout had not been prevented by the blowout.
This is very clear.
But what we know now, what we have learned this week, is that in fact, the construction of the blowout preventer is not wrong, it is not broken, but used as instructed.
The Coast Guard hired a Norwegian company to conduct an expert forensic analysis of what was wrong with the blowout preventer in the BP disaster.
I should say the Coast Guard supervised the matter.
The government hired the company.
The company opened a shop at NASA's New Orleans factory. November.
They announced what they found yesterday.
They found that in our previous metaphor, the airbag in this case, perhaps in each case, did not work.
More specifically, unless there is a car accident, they find that the airbag can work and then they don't work.
Forensic analysis of the problems that occurred in the BP disaster found that the huge pressure explosion that caused the blowout also made the blowout preventer useless.
If the impact that caused the initial accident misplaces the rig's pipes and valves, the blowout preventer will not be able to work and seal the pipes, even when you follow the instructions, even if everything you do is right.
Citing "the results of these studies should be considered and addressed in the future design of the blowout preventer and the need to modify the current blowout preventer.
"Now people are worried that the reason for the possible nuclear leak in Japan is because Japan's backup plan has failed, right?
The earthquake and tsunami destroyed the power of the reactor.
In order to cool the radioactive fuel rods, you need this power at any time.
But don't worry, there is a backup power supply.
A backup power supply was also destroyed by the first earthquake and tsunami that was eliminated.
Line power supply.
The same disaster that caused the backup plan to be required also caused the backup plan to die.
So even if you call it a backup, you don't have a real backup plan.
This is how the blowout preventer is handled.
Causing the same disaster that requires a blowout preventer-a blowout—
In fact, the blow-out blowout preventer will also cause the blowout preventer to not operate.
So, that means you really don't have a backup plan.
You can call it redundancy.
You have no redundancy.
It's not because these things are broken.
Because that's how they designed it.
This is the engineering part of the story.
This is the political part of the story and the life and death part of the story, which, frankly, is even worse.
The federal government is now issuing new permits for drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.
Suddenly issued a new license at an extremely fast speed.
Today, the Interior Ministry approved the fifth deepwater drilling permit for the Gulf of Mexico.
This is not the fifth accident since the Deepwater Horizon accident in last April, and we are now discussing the fifth accident in the last 25 days.
Chevron won the license.
It will drill a well in waters close to 7,000 feet off the coast of Luis Anna.
You will remember that the BP disaster took place in 5,000 feet of the water.
Chevron's new license was issued after the Interior Ministry's decision over the past few weeks to grant drilling permits to Exxon, Shell, ATP Oil and gas and Noble Energy.
All these oil companies are now approved.
Drill before our federal government, baby, drill.
After the suspension, after the drilling suspension, after the big safety panic
After BP, why is the new offshore drilling license now off the shelf?
Well, the government says this is because the oil industry is now "complying with the strict new safety standards imposed after the Deepwater Horizon explosion ".
According to the head of the licensing agency, the license shows-
These new licenses indicate that the industry has demonstrated "the ability to control deep well control and blowout losses ".
"This is the same office and the office where the interior ministry has requested and issued an investigation to prove that the blowout preventer is not working.
Now, the agency says it's drilling baby drills because the oil industry has shown it can handle the blowoutsame agency.
When the Interior Ministry approved the first new license since the BP oil disaster last month, we noticed that it showed that the license went to aristocratic energy.
It seemed like an awkward choice for us at the time, as the biggest ownership stake in the Noble Energy project was held by BP.
Therefore, since the BP oil disaster, the first one to get permission is BP-
BP working with Noble Energy.
Following the announcement of the permit, the show received Noble's oil spill response plan for the project.
Again, it was the first new drilling permit for BP after the disaster.
We found the oil spill response plan because we thought we would like to see the latest oil response plan if the federal government grants new drilling permits.
If we are going to drill again, we would like to see all the lessons learned from the BP catastrophe.
During the BP disaster, we were all very familiar with the company's absurd and inadequate oil spill response plan. Remember?
The BP oil disaster occurred in April 20, 2010.
This is the official drilling oil spill response plan just approved by Noble Energy.
Check the date of their oil spill response plan, September 2009.
So the government assured us that, thanks to all the lessons learned from the BP oil disaster, they only approved new drilling permits. Look at this.
They issued the first permit for the oil spill response plan, which was written the year before the BP oil disaster.
Therefore, no lessons have been learned from the BP oil disaster.
After the BP oil disaster, no new containment capability was developed.
The same spray-proof technology is considered a failure in the BP oil disaster, and we now know that it will fail again even if it is used as instructed.
There is nothing new due to the BP oil disaster.
The permit was approved last month, and seven months before the nation's biggest oil spill, an oil spill response plan was approved. S. history.
With the government guaranteeing all the strict new safety standards these companies will follow.
We contacted the government.
After we got this document, we contacted the Home Office because we thought someone must have sent us the wrong thing.
We think we must have accidentally received the old version of this oil response plan.
They told us that, in fact, we have the mostto-
Date version at hand.
They also told us that in general, rig operators are eligible for a new license in the process of revising any old oil spill response plan.
So, what is the licensing process review?
We also asked the Interior Ministry if their licensing requirements would change given the new report issued by their own office that the blowout preventer did not work, even if they were used as instructed.
They told us that they did not comment on the report.
This is part of an ongoing investigation, but they are issuing drilling permits anyway.
It's like a conviction for Bernie Madoff and then investing the victim's compensation fund in a beautiful Ponzi scam.
What is the government thinking?
Are you under political pressure for all the talk about rising gas prices?
Seriously, what are you thinking here?
How excited is the oil industry that they think they will get away with even after the BP disaster? A 30-
The veteran of the oil and gas industry answers this question with us. (
Bob Cavnar is joining us now. He‘s a 30-
The oldest in the oil and gas industry.
He is currently the CEO of Lucca technology in the gas industry.
Prior to that, he was president and CEO of an oil and gas drilling exploration company called Milagro drilling.
He is also the author of the book disaster on the horizon: high risk, high risk and the story behind the deepwater blowout.
"As we reported on MSNBC, Bob Cavnar helped us explain and understand what happened to the disaster.
Nice to meet you again, Bob.
Thank you for joining us tonight. Bob Cavill, FMR
Oil industry executive: nice to be with you, Rachel. Thank you.
MADDOW: The Interior Ministry went out of its way to assure us that the licenses they are issuing now are the result of the new security measures implemented by the oil industry since the BP disaster.
We are trying to get more documents that list what all of these security measures might be.
We were told they contained proprietary information and could not release it.
As a senior in the industry, do you know which new security measures are being implemented since the BP disaster?
CAVNAR: What I have seen, Rachel, from the communication of the Bank of England, MRE, the new agency of the Interior Ministry has been designated to regulate the industry in the Gulf of Mexico --
The new regulations mainly focus on safety training and third
Allegedly guaranteeing the government the party's certification of companies that would normally be self-certified
Regulators are actually doing what they say they are doing. Really no-
There is no real change in deep water drilling.
The only real system change is the undersea well closure procedure they have developed, and a company has to prove that they are part of it before obtaining a drilling permit.
MADDOW: regarding the new technology of underwater containment, I would like to talk to you about this new report on blowout prevention.
But has it been tested in terms of any new containment technology that has been developed?
Rachel, the life test of this device.
But basically, there are two companies doing all the equipment they have.
One is the Marine Well Containment Company and the other is the spiral Well Containment Company.
They basically took the equipment BP built at sea during the Macondo blowout and set it to a permanent installation that can be quickly deployed.
So far, it hasn't really been tested yet.
Living conditions, in addition to the time actually used on the BP blowout, we see how good this is.
MADDOW: So when the federal government tells us about the show, our producers say directly that there are actually new security procedures that should reassure everyone, there are strict new security standards, in essence, it means that the things that BP eventually capped seem to go ashore somewhere, and some say they are better, people are better trained, and safety standards are good.
But beyond that, nothing new has happened since BP. CAVNAR: Right.
Rachel, the way we drill deep water has not changed at all.
We do this with the same equipment and use the same blowout preventer on all the deep water drilling platforms in the bay that failed at the Macondo well.
The problem here is that these new regulations regulate unreliable equipment, and the regulation of unreliable equipment will not make it more reliable.
It just makes it more standard.
MADDOW: So, be totally clear about this, because I'm really pissed off about this.
I can't believe what we found.
MADDOW: at least in the most recent forensic investigation, 500-
Page report, released this week under the auspices of the Interior Ministry, a Norwegian company that is an expert at the company, said the same thing that caused the blowout would cause the blowout preventer to fail to operate.
Are you saying that the oil rig that is now operating in the bay, and anyone who is working in the Bay now, is using the same equipment?
They use the exact same device.
This is not surprising for the industry.
There have been reports.
In fact, nornornorske Veritas made a report in 2009 saying that the submarine blowout preventer failed in about 45% of the time.
Now, we know that it's not just maintenance, it's not just a fluke, in fact, there are some design flaws in the equipment itself, the blowout will become useless and there is no way to control the well.
So, on these issues, Ed Mackey, a Democratic congressman from Massachusetts, is very outspoken.
He was asked to reach the top immediately. to-
Bottom inspection and review of blowout preventer, design and effectiveness of blowout preventer.
Do you think that if this check is done now, it will find that it is basically defective, or at least a device with poor results?
CAVNAR: some surface problems will be found in the inspection, such as hydraulic leakage, wiring that is not connected, and so on.
However, checking that unreliable devices with design flaws built in do not change functionality, nor do they change functionality missing, if problems occur and fail during the blowout.
Bob canard, 30-
Senior in the oil and gas industry, author of disaster on the horizon, about the BP disaster --
Bob, thank you very much for your time tonight.
I really appreciate it.
Nice to be with you, Rachel. Thanks.
You know, in political science, they always say --
They always say that in political science, they remind you not to make public policies based on disasters.
Never overreact to one thing.
Yes, what's worse, do this or have an event in a million event and then no response at all?
This is amazing.
On Tuesday night, we tell you about the Diablo Canyon nuclear reactor in California, the hellish fusion of seismic faults, nuclear splits and human errors --
For decades, many people have made mistakes over and over again.
We called for the story. look, the miracle happened.
A Republican, a real on-site Republican official, agreed to discuss the issue with us on the show.
The miracle is coming in front of you.
But first, "one more thing" about the BP disaster is clearly not over.
Now, oil is washing off the coast of the state of Luis Anna again.
The Coast Guard says it comes from shallow wells owned by Britain.
Credit Suisse leaked the news when the company was permanently closed.
However, the company said the well leaked only five gallons of crude oil. Five gallons? That‘s it?
Despite its denial, Anglo-
Credit Suisse is currently paying for the clean-up.
And that's it.
This is not the footage you were looking at in the Gulf of Mexico after the BP oil well exploded last year.
This clip-look at that—
This is this week's video.
Brown stripes stretching for 100 miles.
It does look like an oil spill, but the Coast Guard says that's not the case.
The Coast Guard said it contained only a small amount of oil.
According to some local scientists, they believe that huge brown objects are a huge plankton.
When plankton dies, it produces a large amount of dead water, and marine life either escapes or dies.
The BP oil disaster suddenly disappeared last summer, didn't it?
It turns out that it may not really disappear.
It may have just changed from oil plume to dead zone.
Drill, baby. drill. (
MADDOW: in the context of headlines such as Japan for a week, "radiation found in Tokyo water, babies should not drink," in the ongoing headlines about the uncontrollable situation at the Fukushima reactor, as a very compelling background, the United StatesS.
Re-examine the relationship with nuclear energy.
It happens in our own minds and it is officially happening.
Opinion polls show that public support for nuclear energy in the United States is declining, suddenly falling by nearly 20 percentage points, which you can see from our own minds.
But it also happens at the official level.
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission went on.
A daily snapshot review of the state's nuclear reactor safety status, but then a longer, more thorough review of the industry as a whole.
Nuclear Politics has slipped from the left.
The right wing in American politics in recent years is largely due to climate change.
This democratic government is the most supportive.
Any kind of nuclear energy in recent memory.
The president pledged funding from the federal government for a series of new nuclear plants.
The Obama administration's inclination is based on climate change, nuclear power --
All its shortcomings
Oh God don't say wrong
Compared to fossil fuels, all the shortcomings of nuclear energy are very good in terms of carbon emissions.
If Japan's disaster changes the Obama administration's pro-nuclear stance.
If we don't, we may get new nuclear power plants in this country for the first time since the beginning of 1970.
Yes, if you do math at home, that means all 100-
Combined with the nuclear power plants currently operating in the United States, most of them began in the early 70 years.
We highlighted one of them on Tuesday's show, The Dark Canyon in California.
When it was built, we were told it was far from any seismic fault.
It was later found to be near two of them, one three miles away and the other less than a mile away.
The Dark Canyon has already endured billions of dollars in renovation costs, including $2 billion, as some of the plant's seismic renovations are being looked at by the blueprint upside downNot kidding.
In all of this, in the crisis in Fukushima, in the decades of danger in the Dark Canyon, the owner of the nuclear power plant is busy extending the license to operate the nuclear power plant, the nuclear power plant has been tempted by fate since its completion.
State senators representing the region of the Dark Canyon have been doing their best to keep people concerned about the safety of this small fishing machine.
His name is Senator Sam blacksley.
He's a Republican.
He is also a geophysical scientist with a doctorate in earthquake research.
He's joining us now.
Thank you very much, Senator, for being here tonight. STATE SEN.
SAM blacksley®Rachel, I'm glad to be here.
Thank you for your interest in this important question.
MADDOW: Well, let me ask you, are you clear about all the seismic risks we understand and appreciate at the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant?
BLAKESLEE: Actually, I would like to say that it is very clear that we are not doing this.
As you mentioned correctly in the introduction, the Hosgri fault was discovered after the location of that nuclear plant has been designated.
It has gone from the date that the oil company that knew the fault was there, and the utility didn't find it until it was too late --
A very big mistake.
When I was elected in 2005 and started legislation, I began to pay great attention to this issue.
A second fault was found, which is hundreds of meters away from the factory.
Quite a big fault
In fact, it may intersect this larger Hosgri fault offshore.
Therefore, we may have the confluence of two faults that are actually connected, thus creating the possibility of a very significant earthquake that is very close to the facility, and of course, the worst case for us.
MADDOW: do you think that means that the Dark Canyon is inherently unsafe or not suitable to operate as a nuclear facility?
Or do you think this is something we can do?
Through further research, we can get more certainty?
BLAKESLEE: As a scientist, through training, I always argue that the data we get is to answer this question, not to guess.
I am frustrated that I think the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has been turning a blind eye to this.
Their attitude has always been cautious.
Like other nuclear power plants in the country, they put them next to the failure.
They do not have specific policies or methods for dealing with this particular type of risk and danger.
It's frustrating to me that we need to determine what the real risk assessment is so that we can make some wise decisions about the fate of this facility.
MADDOW: do you think the license to operate Diablo Canyon should depend on further research?
BLAKESLEE: I don't think we should move the permit forward until these studies are completed.
Under my legislation, the California Energy Commission directed utilities to take certain steps to answer these questions rather than to take them quickly.
Instead, the utility has run to the NRC to try to re-enable their facilities, although their licenses were issued for both reactors in 2024 and 2025.
It may take only three or four years to do these studies.
So, as someone who represents voters in this area, I am very frustrated to understand why utilities are engaged --
Before information is needed to understand how to renovate the facility, or in fact, to know that this is the place until the electricity is launched on 2045.
Senator Braxley, I have been reading your article and I know enough about you to know that you are not firmly opposed to nuclear energy.
But on behalf of the region, look at the behavior of utility companies here, and look at the behavior of state agencies that are designed to protect our security here --
Do you think nuclear power companies, the industry, are able to maintain confidence in the safety of their plants as much as the US public has in technology?
BLAKESLEE: Rachel, I know a lot of people who work for PG & E and it's hard for people I know
They are sincere, they are honest.
I know a lot of people at PG & E management.
I respect them very much.
I think the challenge is that the regulatory entity that is really responsible for providing regulation is too close to the industry.
They no longer take the responsibility for earthquake safety seriously.
So, from my point of view, I think the bigger problem is that
I think all utilities, I think all oil companies, I think all industries have a certain responsibility for shareholders,, we, as legislators and those who develop laws that instruct regulators to act, need to take a hard line with these regulators to ensure that they do their job well and thus ultimately create a safe environment, we can build there and know that we are actually generating electricity, but we are generating electricity safely.
So, I'm not going to shoot on PG & E.
In addition to my concern that they will re-release the claims that were placed before the earthquake study, I think it is unfair.
I think they need to turn things around and take immediate action.
I have called on them to do so and I am waiting for a letter from them.
Just two days ago, I had a challenge.
MADDOW: those who say the Communist Party, pinko, liberals like me and Republicans like you can never find common ground on the role of government and regulationa-
These people are wrong for this industry, and we just proved that.
Senator Sam Braxley of California, I thank you very much for your willingness to have this really constructive discussion with not only your constituents, but with us on national television.
Thank you very much.
BLAKESLEE: Thank you for your interest in this. Appreciate it.
MADDOW: the most feared thing is to come.
A chore you 've heard of politically, and it turns out that it's not fear --
It's a rumor.
We have tapes that are very counter-intuitive. (
MADDOW: Why do you start a war does not determine whether it is a real war, whether you are for humanitarian reasons or for fate or for yourselfdefense or pre-emptive self-defense—
Weapons of mass destruction.
A war of moral reasons is like a war of lies.
The main points of the international war in Libya are limited by the United Nations.
The war was defined as preventing Gaddafi from killing his people by force.
But it is difficult to stop fighting with war.
Fighting is a defense.
There is no military shield for civilians. And so, the U. N.
The war in Libya is aimed at protecting civilians, which is actually a battle between the international coalition and the Gaddafi army.
Gaddafi's forces deployed troops on the ground.
International forces are doing everything they are doing from the air and at sea.
International forces have been saying that their goal is not to hunt down Gaddafi in person, but they are clearly trying to beat Gaddafi's army in the battle. And the anti-
Gaddafi rebels on the ground are happy to get help.
This is the scene of the rebel "thank you" Coalition rally --
It was held yesterday in Benghazi.
It is reported that 15,000 people in Benghazi are holding signs thanking the United Nations and the United States. S.
France and other alliances that bombed their country, because in fact they were on their side in the war against Gaddafi.
The flags you seeGadhafi-
Today, after AmericaS.
I have always said firmly that the leadership of the United States over the Libyan operation will end in a few days rather than weeks after NATO's six consecutive days of meetings on this, NATO finally announced that it will take over the military operations in Libya, and the United States will leave the command and control leadership that our army has been in since the beginning of the weekend.
They say NATO will take the lead now.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will join US Defense Secretary Bob Gates and Chairman of the joint chiefs of staff to inform Congress next week.
But tonight, she said at a press conference. (
Start Video Editing)
Secretary of State hillary clinton: We have agreed with our NATO allies to hand over command and control to No.
Fly over Libya to NATO's air defense identification zone.
The alliance includes countries other than NATO, including Arab partners.
The UAE announced this evening that they will join the alliance and send a plane(END VIDEO CLIP)
So, the less the United States, the more alliances, including Arab countries, the more NATO will be.
That's what we thought tonight.
When military operations began on Saturday, the United StatesS.
Responsible for 70% flights over Libya.
Then the figure rose to 87%, to 65%, and then to 70% yesterday.
Now, NATO is in control.
Not the U. S. flight zone. S.
Responsible for this proportion of the United StatesS. sorties, U. S.
When Libya's participation will last long enough at any level in the United StatesS.
The government will seek congressional votes on whether we should be there or not?
In tomorrow's Rachel Mado show, we will learn the benefits from the insidedown, inside-out, they-said-it-couldn‘t-be-
What is the cost of this war?
We will be back soon. (
MADDOW: since the Japanese government announced earlier this week that higher levels of radiation from tap water in Tokyo meant babies should not drink tap water, they have canceled the directive.
They now tell people that water is good.
Two workers at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant were in the process of trying to stabilize the nuclear power plant and were hospitalized for exposure to radioactive substances. The junior-
We have been trying to get to know the news of Japan, and now its nuclear disaster must also be expanded to neverbefore—never-before-
Faced with the dilemma of how to deal with uncontrolled nuclear reactors that are essentially full of salt.
They dumped a lot of water into these hot reactors and these hot spent fuel pools.
When the water is boiling, it leaves a lot of salt.
How does salt affect stationary?
Keep trying to stop these reactors and spent fuel rods from melting?
We are continuing to learn this.
Join us now to help us understand what we can do about this ongoing crisisMichio Kaku.
He's a theoretical physicist.
He is also the author of "future physics: How Science Will Shape Human Destiny and Our Daily Lives by 2100. ”Dr.
Kaku, thank you very much for your time tonight. DR.
KAKU o KAKU, a theoretical physicist: It's a pleasure to be on this show.
MADDOW: I mentioned the dilemma of brine because I was concerned about the risk factors that desperate use of salt in seawater to cool these reactors could ultimately lead to these reactors.
Can you help us understand what's going on here in general?
KAKU: Well, think about that little Dutch boy facing these cracks on the dam.
This hole, that hole, that hole must be handled.
We now have a hole in the dam, which is due to the boiling of the sea water, which produces a value of 90,000 pounds of salt in a unit.
This salt wraps the fuel rod like a cocoon to prevent cooling water from cooling the fuel rod.
It starts to melt when the stick reaches 5,000 degrees.
If there is a spark, there will be a hydrogen explosion that blows the entire spent fuel pool into the air.
Very similar to the Chernobyl accident.
MADDOW: as far as the insulation factor of the salt is concerned, if they can switch to fresh water and continue to cool in these reactors, may this dilute the salt skin, I think?
Or dilute the impact of what they do with seawater, enough to eliminate some insulation damage that has been caused?
We want to use fresh water instead of sea water.
But realize that they are made up over time.
Take any nuclear engineering textbook and go to the last chapter of the accident scene.
Not in this book.
We are witnessing a scientific experiment with human beings. we are guinea pigs.
They actually made it up as they moved forward.
We have never seen this before in such a serious nuclear accident.
MADDOW: What do you think about the news that the reactor is back to power?
Can you fully state how much damage has been done to the system that you will connect to the power, and know if this will be a game?
Has there been a change in ending this crisis?
KAKU: The problem is they have cables to enter the unit but they can't turn the pump on.
In fact, they turned the pump in Unit 2 but did not work.
The problem is that turning on the light switch will generate hydrogen and sparks, causing hydrogen.
So, we have to rely on firefighters before they start the pump.
There is no place in the textbook to say that firefighters, local firefighters, are the last means to put out the nuclear accident.
This is unprecedented.
As a result, since the pump has not been turned on, we rely on local firefighters to drain water on site.
They are waiting to see if they can turn on the pump.
The pump in Unit 2 is not working.
MADDOW: inadvertently, we 've talked about the oil disaster at BP on tonight's show.
We talked about the disaster in Japan.
We keep saying
We actually talked about the safety of the Dark Canyon.
Tonight's show is about making good policies and adjusting future plans to reflect past disasters.
You are a futurist.
You're a theoretical physicist.
When you look at this situation in Japan, it is clear that people lack imagination about exactly how much will go wrong.
How do you think we should start planning a safer future based on what happened at Fukushima?
KAKU: the key mistake they made was that there was no plan in 100year event.
The engineer said not in my lifetime, not in my child's lifetime.
We have one in 100. year event. Look at Katrina.
This should not happen in 100.
In Fukushima, the walls of the tsunami are only 15 feet high.
The tsunami hit 25 feet high.
Then they put the generator in the basement.
That's the root cause of this thing being completely out of control.
All security systems are cleared at the same time, which is not in the book.
This is something outside the textbook that every nuclear engineer must learn.
MADDOW: in other words, we need new teaching materials that are more terrible than the existing textbooks.
Cool: Yes. MADDOW: Dr.
Theoretical physicist Kaku o Kaku, author of future physics-
Thank you for helping us understand this tonight. Appreciate it. Cool: Okay.
MADDOW: is there any agency that can save the world better than the National Nuclear Security Administration?
After Japan's nuclear disaster, is there any agency that is not worth withdrawing from the budget --
Hacking Republicans in the house?
Save some money instead of saving the planet, one of the most amazing political ads you 've heard for a long time --coming up next. (
MADDOW: in American politics, there is a long and dirty history of using the terrible threat of terrorism to pursue other completely unrelated political goals. (
Start audio clips)
Radio host Rush Limbaugh: Well, ladies and gentlemen, the terrorists won. A nine-to-
The New York landmark committee's zero vote cleared the way to build a mosque at Ground Zero. (END AUDIO CLIP)
MADDOW: Radio host Rush Limbaugh said the construction of a mosque at the former Burlington Coat Factory in lower Manhattan was a 9/11 victory for the terrorists who attacked us.
Senator Jim Dement also said that if TSA security personnel are allowed to join the Union, then-
And, you know, terrorism. (
Start Video Editing)SEN.
Jim Deming®South Carolina: When we set up an airport security system, we realized that we cannot use collective bargaining and unions because it requires flexibility, but it seems to be a top priority for the government right now.
These things cannot appease the terrorists.
They will keep following us and we can't have politics in Washington as usual, which I'm afraid is what we get now in terms of airport security. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: allowing TSA security agents to join the Union
Terrorism, you know.
In the 2006 midterm elections, the threat from the government at that time was that if you vote for Democrats --terrorism. (
Start Video Editing)GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U. S.
The president: No matter what they say, the Democratic Party's approach in Iraq comes down to the fact that the terrorists won and the United States lost. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: increasing the threat of nuclear and fear-
Politicians who spread rumors use this to pursue bigger political goals that have nothing to do with what they threaten you. (
Start Video Editing)
Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice: We don't want the mushroom cloud to be the gun for smoking.
BUSH: We can't wait for the final evidence, the smoking gun that may appear in the form of a mushroom cloud. (End Video Clip)
Saddam Hussein has no nuclear program.
This threat is not true, but it's a huge, terrible fake threat.
It's a mushroom cloud that can scare us, even the really big, unrelated policy disaster. (
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified men: one of the facts that we know from some of the defectors who have come out of Iraq over the years is that Saddam Hussein is absolutely determined to acquire nuclear weapons and build them as quickly as possible.
Unidentified men: we read a story today in The New York Times that Saddam Hussein is closer to getting nuclear weapons.
Does he have nuclear weapons?
Is there a smoking gun here?
An interesting phrase is a gun for smoking.
Former Secretary of State Colin Powell: As we saw in our report this morning.
Unidentified male: specifically, what did he get and do you think that would strengthen his nuclear development plan? (End Video Clip)
Fear of America-
Spreading the history of the end of the world is a bit too bad because it's not fear --
If you are really working directly to stop the nuclear end of the world, then talk about the nuclear end of the world.
This is the work of a Department of the US government.
This is an unknown Office of the US Department of Energy called the National Nuclear Security Agency.
They have locked unprotected loose nuclear material around the world to keep it away from the black market and the hands of terrorists who are not hysterical about it, when you think organizations like al Qaeda say over and over again that they want to buy nuclear material so they can use it in a terrorist attack, and there is evidence that they are trying to buy it on the black market.
Part of the United States. S.
Find and secure the most vulnerable nuclear material in the world.
So, if you're worried about something like this, the appropriate response is: OK.
I'm glad we did.
After the agency locked 111 pounds of Ukraine's nuclear material around Christmas, we received the head of the nuclear administration on this show.
We named him the deputy secretary-general for saving the world ".
Now Republicans in Congress want to deprive the agency of money.
Although they say they won't cut national security, they want to cut $0. 55 billion from agencies that lock unprotected loose nuclear material to prevent it from entering the black market around the world, this means it may be the first time in the United States. S.
History, advertising that starts in this way is actually real, not fearmongering. (
Start Video Editing)LT. GEN.
Robert Gard Jr. (voice-over)
What I'm going to tell you sounds crazy, but it's true.
Speaker John Boehner is making nuclear weapons easier for terrorists. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Sounds crazy? Also true.
It sounds like a "fear" advertisement in the Bush administration era.
In this case, Republicans are really proposing to make nuclear material more accessible to terrorists.
This is the first line of new ads from retired Lieutenant General Robert Gard.
He's part of the counter.
The non-proliferation group has advertised anti-nuclear terrorism cuts in key parts of Congress. Listen. (
Start Video Editing)
GARD: Speaker John Boehner and House Republicans have cut hundreds of millions of dollars from successful Treasury bonds. S.
Plans to protect dangerous weapons
Grade of nuclear raw materials worldwide.
Terrorists can use it to make nuclear weapons.
John Boehner's reckless cuts to our nuclear security budget are too much.
We all want Congress to cut the budget, but do it responsibly. (END VIDEO CLIP)
\ MADDOW: the goal of the ad is not just John Boehner, but also Mitch McConnell, Eric Conto, Paul Ryan, Hal Rogers and Sade Cochrane, all supporting g.
This big wound in America. S.
The government is actually working on the whole smoking mushroom cloud issue, not scaring you to accomplish other unrelated political things.
In English, we don't have a word that means the opposite of fear --
But if we do have the word, it will be an example next to the word in the Political Science Dictionary.
That's what it is for us tonight.
We will see you tomorrow night.
It's time for the "education show.
This is a hasty record.
This copy may not be in final form and may be updated.
Copyright 2011 CQ-Roll Call, Inc.
All materials herein are protected by US copyright law and may not be copied, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call.
You may not change or delete any trademark, copyright or other notice in a copy of the content.